The ipad. Awesome or Pointless? Or Both?

[NoftisHawk† 0]

So, after seeing the release of the ipad, i figured to look up its stats. Its, uhh, cool, i guess. Well, honestly, i think that its pretty pointless. Jumbo sized ipod touch? i think so. Whats your opinion?

[Flechmen 0]

More like, lame.

Like all Apple products, the thing can't even multi-task. And, due to "security issues", there's no Flash support what so ever.

 

For $100 more, you can get something that's the same size, way more powerful, and runs Windows 7. Not Windows Mobile, full blown Windows 7 with full multimedia support. Not to mention full multi-touch support. Don't believe me? Look for yourself.

 

Now, I have a tablet that I rather like that runs Android OS. It has full multi-tasking capabilities and an ever increasing app market.

If I had the choice between an iPad and, say, a Windows Mobile device, I would lean towards the Windows Mobile device. They're usually very inexpensive (compared to Apple products) and have the same multimedia support. Not to mention several years worth of support communities and apps. Seriously, Windows Mobile is ancient. But even early versions of it could do something as simple as multi-tasking!

 

There is a huge number of tablets that run Linux to choose from as well, with even more capabilities. Such as being able to compile your favorite desktop applications on them.

 

In my opinion, the iPad is for the people that say "I'll buy anything that's shiny and made by Apple". Which, I think must be their target audience.

 

P.S, I'm not against Apple or some kind of "Apple Hater". I have a Mac, my step-dad is a certified Mac technician, I've fixed a few of the things. Needless to say, we have them sitting around the house... I see no point in using anything else for video editing; hands down, Macs are the best for that.

I don't like how OSX keeps you completely sheltered from anything having to do with the system, and the dock is just annoying; but, stuff you don't really have to deal with if all you're using it for is video editing.

[Guest Wolfin]

I still like Adobe Premier on Windows for video editing, and, from what I've compared with Flech render times are about the same.

 

/me ducks and waits for the mac people to stone him.

[Flechmen 0]

There's plenty of PC users that are idiots too, I've dealt with a few >.>

I get phone calls sometimes... "Daniel, we need a 'Powerpoint machine'". A what? It took me a wile to figure out they needed a projector.

Or, "Daniel, I think I have a virus" and their computer is so bad I end up reformatting it.

 

And, there's very smart people that use Apple products. Like I said, my step-dad is a Mac technician. They're well built little machines too. I've fixed a couple older MacBooks for the school. I did notice it was only the most liberal teachers that wanted and liked them. >.> Except for the video teacher. But, they were using the machines purely for video work. So, Mac is what I learned how to do video work on and I rather prefer them for that.

And, I realize, you, foxbunny, are a Mac user; or, so I would assume from your use of Final Cut. And you are obviously not an idiot.

 

From a purly statistical standpoint, the only benefit and possible selling point I see in the iPad is to "Apple Fanboys" who buy anything made by Apple (seen people like this too, its scary) and people who are familiar with the iPod Touch and want something more powerful.

It will certainly run your apps faster and on a much larger screen, but you can get a netbook for half the price that would do it even better.

Unlike the iPod Touch, which I think would be a nice product if not for the dependence on iTunes, the iPad isn't small and portable. It's something quite large that has no hope of fitting in the baggiest of pant pockets (my main gripe with netbooks!).

Even given its size and power, it lacks the ability to run multiple applications. Apple products seem to be the only thing on the market with this limitation. The hardware is perfectly capable of running a multitude of applications side by side, but the software holds it back.

Now, I have seen people who feel this is a benefit. On a Windows Mobile or Android device, you would have a task manager app to kill background apps you're not using anymore, as the OS won't kill them for you.

For someone like me, the ability to multitask is essential. I'll have several IM and IRC clients open while browsing the web on my tablet or (Windows Mobile) phone.

Now, I would by far prefer the Archos device I mentioned before, as it's 50% faster, hosts the same multi-touch support, and isn't limited by the OS. Now, it is basically a netbook, and I've yet to have a good experience with netbooks. I shudder to think of Windows 7 running on one (something else I've yet to have a good experience with, but a few very bad experiences...). I have had good experience with Archos devices, however, and I know them to be quality. I've abused many MP3 players.

 

Now, the reason I watch religious arguments so closely is because I've seen them escalate to the point where people leave the community or the faith entirely.

One example, was on another Christian furry forum. It was a thread about gay marriage that was way out of hand. A moderator told the participants to cool down and the response was a very snarky "No". The thread was closed by another moderator who was basically chased from the community because a thread was posted that had everyone saying how horrid this moderator was and how they overreacted. The staff of the forum decided this moderator took things too personally and kicked them out. This moderator was me...

Almost every debate over any kind of controversy turns into an argument like this. Most of the time, it just slides by.

CF has had a good history of dealing with such things, and I want to keep such a history. I do apologize for being so on edge in that area.

 

I also do appologize for insinuating that Apple buyers are idiots. That was wrong of me.

[NoftisHawk† 0]

Well, im glad to see people coming out of their shell (er, foxholes as it were) on the issue.

 

To foxbuuny: i agree with your points on how it could be good in different situations, but (read: not attack) would it not make sense to save $100-$200 and get a netbook? in my opinion, they have the more functionality (minus 3g and touchscreen, which could be a selling point. i guess you could get a pcie 3g card for a netbook though). I guess, though, if you do not multitask, and you like a no-brainer type approach to OSes, the ipad makes sense. Personally, i like tinkering with my OS. I actually like mac products. i just do not like how proud they are of their products ($$).

 

To flechman: i am actually running win7 professional on my netbook (asus eee), and it runs just seemlessly. Its all about optimization/optimism. Its lite enough for most anything (unlike vista). I cant image win7 not doing well (i suppose this is more for the win7 thread....). Its lite enough for most anything (unlike vista).

[Flechmen 0]

I do have a Mac, I'm about ready to toss it out. The best use I've found for it is putting it in standby and using it as a battery charger (USB ports stay powered on).

 

The issue with size that I see, is that because of such, its no more portable than your typical laptop. Especially something like a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. If it were smaller, say a 4 or even 5 inch screen, I would be able to look at it as a truly portable device, as it would fit in my pocket. But, if I'm going to have to carry something in a bag anyway, I might as well use my laptop.

This is the same issue I see with netbooks. While they are small and light, they're not small and light enough to have any benefit over a full laptop.

The laptop I have is anything but small and light, but its small and light enough to follow along with me just about anywhere. There are situations where a laptop would not be appropriate and even cumbersome. However, these are also situations where a netbook, or a large tablet like the Archos 9 or iPad, would also be inappropriate.

 

I know there is a time and place for large devices such as desktop computers and laptop computers and I know there are times and places for smaller, portable devices like an iPod or a smaller tablet, like my Archos 5. I've yet to find an appropriate time or place for a mid-sized device such as a netbook or larger tablet.

Any situation where one person could argue that a netbook would be appropriate, is often a situation I wouldn't use anything less than my laptop for.

For example, running powerpoints. I've seen numerous struggles with powerpoints alleviated with a full sized laptop. A tablet wouldn't be appropriate in this area as they have no VGA output.

 

For eBooks, depending on the type of eBook, using anything other than a full computer can prove to be a hassle. Most of the eBooks I've seen come as .lit files, which are (usually) a heavily encrypted Microsoft format, which only Microsoft eBook software can read. The other eBooks I've seen, for my schooling and so on, are proprietary formats with proprietary readers that, again, require a full computer.

This is irritating to me, because I would rather like to use my tablet for such things. Unless you've already got the books in a format that the iPad can read, I don't really see how it will be anything less than a struggle to get. :/

I did find a program that takes unencrypted .lit files and converts them to more open formats or HTML.

/me has the entire Redwall series on his tablet thanks to that.

 

NoftisHawk: I'm dead set against anything having to do with 7. I used it for about 2 weeks and just had problem after problem, resulting in the death of my hard drive. But, that's another matter... I'm the only one that has issues like this it seems. :/

 

As far as OS tinkering goes:

Linux: Gives you the keys to the mansion but no owners manual. I rather like tinkering with Linux but in a VM environment where it doesn't matter if I break it.

Windows: Keeps you blissfully ignorant. You /can/ mess with it, but they really don't want you to and hide the tools to do so.

OSX: Keeps you completely sheltered. Unless you dig up the terminal app and start messing around. With the Unix base, all the command line stuff is the same in OSX as it is in Linux.

[NoftisHawk† 0]

true true. Windows does have a way of being a time investment (its kinda the happy median between linux and mac in terms of ease of use in my opinion). Mac is def. the easiest OS to use, and with two kids running around (not gonna lie, surprised by that. didnt realize there was anyone married on the forum), Mac makes sense. turn it on and go. Idunno, i guess im just a tad biased toward windows (w00t gaming). the ipad, though does have its fair share of games, making it a pretty good 'portable' gaming platform. if there were usb ports (does it?) and a stronger cpu/gpu, it would be a fabulous platform for all sorts of games (especially with the accelerometer). But, if gaming isnt the focus, and you wanted more of a e-reader (like you were saying foxbunny) it could be quite the valid choice, that is if your alright with reading a lcd screen for hours at a time ( i assume that thats alright seeing as how your on our forum).

[Flechmen 0]

Time is worth more to me now than money (happens sometimes when you have 2 kiddos scrapping about). I did work on computers for years, but got tired of how much time it took to get things to work sometimes (and how things kept changing in order to change, rather than to improve anything).

 

In which case a Mac works for you and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Also, there's nothing that keeps you from tweaking OS X except knowledge of Linux since it is just BSD with a pretty face. You actually have the dev tools included (Xcode) to write kernel extensions, databases and iphone apps as well as java applets and applications in anything from Ruby to C to C++ to Objective C. No charge for the tools, of course.

As I just said...

However, I've found it to be difficult to compile things on OSX, at least with a PPC processor. I'm not sure what it is about the architecture. :/

 

The price issue was something that kept me away for a while, but having a 9 year old desktop that STILL WORKS without having had to replace even a single part is a real testament to the extra $100. I still use Animation:Master and Photoshop on that one. I know I can get a "better" system for less when I buy a Mac. However, I like how the Mac works and have experienced dependability from Apple products in the past (ongoing), so it's worth it to me.

 

I think mine's about 10 or 11 years old now. The only issue is that it overheats and goes into a kernal panic or a screen anomaly. It would cost more to fix than to replace.

 

But, alas, I've seen and used older Hewlett Packard machines with all original parts, aside from a bit more RAM to make it run Windows 98 more smoothly.

[NoftisHawk† 0]

 

Also' date=' there's nothing that keeps you from tweaking OS X except knowledge of Linux since it is just BSD with a pretty face. You actually have the dev tools included (Xcode) to write kernel extensions, databases and iphone apps as well as java applets and applications in anything from Ruby to C to C++ to Objective C. No charge for the tools, of course.[/quote']

As I just said...

However, I've found it to be difficult to compile things on OSX, at least with a PPC processor. I'm not sure what it is about the architecture. :/

 

In my experience macs compile as well as windows, i dont even know why they wouldnt, since they are using more or less the same cpus as windows nowadays (woot intel).

[Flechmen 0]

In my experience macs compile as well as windows, i dont even know why they wouldnt, since they are using more or less the same cpus as windows nowadays (woot intel).

 

/me has a PPC Mac

 

Back on topic though...

 

If the iPad ran OSX, not the firmware it does, I would have a much higher opinion of it. I mean, that'd be pretty darn cool.

[NoftisHawk† 0]

If the iPad ran OSX' date=' not the firmware it does, I would have a much higher opinion of it. I mean, that'd be pretty darn cool.

[/quote']

 

FACT! i would buy one if it ran SnowLeopard, granted if i had the money to spend on it....

[HoboFawkes† 0]

Cross your fingers/pawpads/talons/whatever, hackers are known for doing cool things like that. Who knows?

[Flechmen 0]

I doubt they could do something that cool.

It would involve compiling OSX on a different architecture. Which... head software dev at Apple would have to do.

[NoftisHawk† 0]

That may not necessarily be true. they may not be able to get OSX on, yes, but who says that we could not get linux running on it? heck, if we can flash phones, it shouldnt be /that/ difficult (theoretically) to get it running (even if it was a vm/shell). This is a little outside of my expertise, so i could just be making wild claims

[Flechmen 0]

Well, it depends on how the thing is designed.

 

Looking at the Archos 604 WiFi, which is my old MP3 player, it would seem like it would be an easily hackable and customizable device. The source code for the firmware is even available.

If you get into it, it proves to be impossible.

The ROM checks the firmware and file system for two 1024 bit keys, the absence of such keys makes the firmware unrunable.

When you compile the firmware from source, it does not generate these keys. Thus making it so anything custom does nothing.

I'm sure Apple products are very similar.

 

There is iPod Linux but its not for something like the iPod Touch or iPad.

 

The iPad will probably be jailbreak-able, however.

[NoftisHawk† 0]

Wow, i had no idea that they would include keys like that, though it makes alot of sense...

Even if the ipad was jailbroken, it would still be a jumbo itouch. i.e. still kinda a novelty item more than anything else

[Flechmen 0]

Pretty much.

 

I'll stick with my Archos tablet.

[SpecklesGreyHighoof† 0]

Seems pointless to me. It's just another gadget, while the Iphone (heck, some cellphones are fine enough) is good enough. Sure, it looks cool, but, *shrugs* I think it's pointless.

[Xyie Fourseasons† 0]

Tablets don't have much appeal to me as is, at the moment.

[DeltaK9 0]

It's the Iphone for people with fat fingers! XD

[Flechmen 0]

It's the Iphone for people with fat fingers! XD

 

A new niche market!

[NoftisHawk† 0]

Yay! apple did something right! Wait, but is there a market for people with fat fingers?

[Flechmen 0]

Well, if you're someone with fat fingers, wouldn't you be looking for a larger device that's easier to use?

[NoftisHawk† 0]

i guess, but, please correct me if i am wrong, arent all the icons and such just as small as they are on the ipod touch? or did they make them proportionally bigger?

[Flechmen 0]

I would think it would be proportionate. It would kinda suck if they were so tiny on such a large device.