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TPP and what it means for CF


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#1 Adair

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 10:00 PM

If you haven't heard of the Trans Pacific Partnership, you should really go read up on it then call your local officials and complain about it.
The vote to fast track it (TPA and the ability to bypass public vote) has already passed and the vote for TPP is happening today.
The agreement was meant to be under wraps until after it had been in place for several years, but the full text has been leaked, and its not good.

I do not get involved in politics, but this agreement puts the existence of CF at risk.

If you don't already know, CF is something I do for fun, I pay all of the bills out of my own pocket and I make nothing on it.
TPP brings on a lot of threats and consequences, including takedowns and hefty fines for users just linking to content that's of questionable copyright.
A media company can charge a fine or order a take down for any reason, and you better belive that this is going to be abused.

If the TPP passes and is not repealed, then the day it goes into affect is the day CF is going to have to close doors or figure out a way to keep copyrighted content off the site.
I can't afford to pay fines, go to court, or any of that. I'm sorry.

Im not going to link to some protest sign up or have you subscribe to some newsletter. What needs to happen is calls to state Representatives. You can find yours using Google. Find out who their secretaries are and bombard them too.

This does not affect only the US! TPP spans several countries, so if you live outside of the US call your government officials too.

TPP is bad for every website, not just CF.

 

Don't read this as a "CF is closing" message though. I will be clear if that is the case! As far as I'm concerned, I recently renewed licenses for a couple pieces of software we use for another year, and I intend to use that license...


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#2 Rythe

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:41 AM

I've wandered past some news about the TPP as a mere trade agreement and had to come to the conclusion that it's one most muddied bit of politicis I've seen in a long time - so much disinformation. I should have known that was a bad sign when combined with a few other things.

But I hadn't seen any mention of the intellectual property rights provisions before, so thanks for bringing this up Adair.

On the quick browse, https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp seems to be a good writeup of the issues without being particularly partisan about it.


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#3 Hybrilynx

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:43 AM

It sounds like one of those things that will end the internet. If that happens then the world will be in chaos. I know there's probably millions of people with websites for a hobby. That links to whatever.

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#4 Adair

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:20 AM

I don't know if I can move stuff into another country maybe; but since I'm in the US I don't really know if that means this site needs to operate under US laws if the actual servers are in France or something. 


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#5 SalemPertaeus

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:34 AM

I do not quite understand what CF would be in trouble for. Adair, can you please elaborate for me?


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#6 Adair

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 01:37 AM

If I'm interpreting this correctly, then if users (you) post something to the forums that's of questionable copyright (a picture that's not yours, a youtube video, music, etc.), or if you link to a page that has other links to questionable things, then CF could be taken down or fined for spreading that content.


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#7 foxbunny

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:52 AM

Actually, the TPP not being voted on. There's currently no completed agreement up for vote for the TPP in the House or Senate.

What was voted on (and passed) today was a "fast track" bill. Essentially this bill prevents amendments from being added to trade deals sent to the Congress for approval and requires a simple "up or down" vote on the proposal.

 

The copyright rules that are being proposed will require the other countries involved to offer copyright protections in line with what is currently in the US. That is, if you are operating in the US right now, nothing should change. If you are in a country with lax copyright enforcement you could be in trouble.

 

Think of how Cease and Desist or takedown requests work now on youtube, etc. That's what they're trying to implement, only stretching outside the US.

 

I personally think the TPP is not a good move. It's a lot like NAFTA, which hasn't really done much good for the US.



#8 Rythe

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 04:06 AM

Well, since we went there...

The www.eff.org writers make a good writeup on why the TPP would enact policy that has the teeth of the DMCA in the US (and then some) without many of the protections or the ability to adjust domestic policy appropriately to the times, tech, and conditions because international trade agreements don't work like that. And then the TPP goes further in areas like putting liability on ISPs to do something about copyright complaints.

For us little guys, there's a lot to say that the TPP will be worse that what the US currently enjoys.


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#9 James SilverWolf

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:58 AM

Well this sounds like, in a nutshell, a turning of U.S. internet more towards the Chinese internet (read: communist/satanist-totalitarian), can't say that is surprising.  Granted one way to get around that would be to disallow all media content (pictures, video, sound files etc.) but as for linking, well that would have to be spelled out in the rules I suppose (although disabling all hyperlinking could be done, it wouldn't be likely to make many folks very happy).  Although this would only be the tip of the proverbial iceberg, as there are other "trade agreement" laws trying to slither by as well (TTIP I think it was?).  We can be sure the internet at large won't go down (it has too much value to evil for that to be permitted by those serving evil, corruption of minors, child porn, black market dealing, disinformation and brainwashing/conditioning, propaganda campaigns, etc.) but that doesn't mean they won't try to expunge the good.

 

I would also, in addition to contacting people, suggest praying against the evil trying to go afoot with this, that the scheme those who serve evil are trying to accomplish would fail... and if you do try to contact politicians etc. you might try asking God/The Holy Spirit/Christ for the words to say... and finally for protection of others (family etc.) and yourselves, as speaking out against this is also likely to draw "not nice" attention.


Edited by James SilverWolf, 26 June 2015 - 08:03 AM.

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#10 SuperKuddlor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:37 PM

Great. My finals are over and I was hoping to have a good nice summer full of creativity and now again I get this new SOPA.

 

Alright. If I live in Croatia like I do, what do I have to do? Where's the button for taking action? Where's the form to fill? What can happen to me?



#11 Basilium

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:33 PM

Sounds like a scheme to get rid of all Christian websites. Now I'm scared. Not to mention it's a worldwide thing.

 

But what I want I want to know is, why was it kept secret?



#12 foxbunny

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:38 PM

It's not being kept secret. There is currently no trade deal agreed to, only "leaked" proposals from more than 6 months ago. So, there is only speculation about what might be in a possible future deal that may or may not happen.

Essentially there are two lenses through which one can view the world: the lens of hope or the lens of fear. There is no fear in love, and Christians live love.

Edited by foxbunny, 26 June 2015 - 06:40 PM.


#13 Adair

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:53 PM

Great. My finals are over and I was hoping to have a good nice summer full of creativity and now again I get this new SOPA.

Alright. If I live in Croatia like I do, what do I have to do? Where's the button for taking action? Where's the form to fill? What can happen to me?

See if it even applies to your country, and if it does contact your local government representatives.
I don't have a button to press or anything like that.

But yeah, prayers.

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#14 SuperKuddlor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:03 PM

Luckily it doesn't. I think it doesn't for Poland either. That's great so that in case I have to leave Croatia due to recession, I can go to Poland.



#15 poleposition16

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 09:57 PM

I would be willing to not post links to anywhere. That could be put in the rules up front, or as a message to everyone. In it you can describe how to take action against and what TPP is. I assume this wouldn't be impossible for you?


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#16 poleposition16

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:04 PM

And it is not aimed at christian websites. This place has done a lot of good, Thank you Adair. We shouldn't be much of a target for them. And if we are then that is god's will, whatever happens happens. seek out some irc and skype or something if it comes to total shutdown. The reason I'm not so upset is that there are a lot of websites that need to be shut down. If this law cracks down on porn sites, human traffiking sites, terrorist site and the like, then good.


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#17 Adair

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 02:04 AM

And it is not aimed at christian websites. This place has done a lot of good, Thank you Adair. We shouldn't be much of a target for them. And if we are then that is god's will, whatever happens happens. seek out some irc and skype or something if it comes to total shutdown. The reason I'm not so upset is that there are a lot of websites that need to be shut down. If this law cracks down on porn sites, human traffiking sites, terrorist site and the like, then good.

I'm going to see about moving things to another country before a shutdown. Canada is decidedly not a part of the TPP (and are very much against internet censorship in general) and moving services up north just a bit isn't a big deal (currently things are hosted in New York and Texas).

 

I don't really want to disallow external linking because that's a pain in the butt. No one reads rules or alerts if it hits them in the face, and having the software automatically deal with it will result in a lot of "what happened to my link???" support messages. It would also mean disallowing avatars, which I feel is important for a furry forum. 

 

The laws crack down on copyright infringement. So unless those websites are infringing copyrights, then they won't be targeted. I know we won't be targeted per say, but I'd still rather operate in a legal grey area ("Everything's in Canada") rather than a we-can-be-dinged-but-probably-wont-be area. 


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#18 Hybrilynx

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 02:53 AM

Wouldn't this destroy porn sites?

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#19 Nathan of the Little Paws

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:39 AM

Wouldn't this destroy porn sites?

You wish. Lots of them just host their own content rather than linking to others anyway.

 

Except the ones that are using stolen content and aren't going to be taken down even with the new laws.


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#20 SuperKuddlor

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:24 PM

Probably all porn of all movies and cartoons will be deleted. That would be perfect!






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