Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2013 OK. We'll work on something easy and simply first, then work our way from there. I'll focus a bit on plot as well. We'll come up with something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) from the looks of it i guess lu-man is pretty much in charge of the ideas (stuff ish). of course, theres nothing wrong starting with 2+ projects at once anyway. at least, not for me. sew, is there any artist who feels like cooperating? well, volunteering i mean. Edited August 23, 2013 by Hybrilynx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 23, 2013 Well not trying to take the project from you just throwing ideas around really. I'm just trying to do what I can Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rythe† 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) Hmmmn, well, don't take this as discouragement but rather trying to ground you for the path ahead. Saying that you can make a game like Dust: Elysian Tail is a massive claim, and I can't help but feel skeptical, especially as that game is 60% assets, 20% code, 20% polish, 80% vision, and 95% determination. And I'm saying this as someone who, along with a friend, made a one level schmup around late high school. Solo, I did a program that simulated a JRPG style turn-based battle system with a client-host 'multiplayer' setup to a late Beta state. I also tried to create an actual JRPG ATB battle system, but got mired in crash causing bugs until the project fell apart. That, and even after reading up on new Javascript and HTML5 capabilities, I'm really skeptical of using it for any game that's supposed to last more than 15-30 minutes a full playthrough and/or not rely on a server database to manage data. so I have to ask - Have you made a full game before, Hybrilynx? You have desire and enthusiasm, but not much to call 'vision', nor a plan to speak of besides coding something into a 3DS browser. You seem to be fishing around for a project lead and coordinator with little to entice someone who knows just how much you're asking of them, nevermind enough knowledge or experience of the process to have even odds of pulling it off. In short, you need to work on your pitch and probably get a volunteer for the art before this can go anywhere. My biggest hitch is whether or not I'm ready to dedicate myself to a real project again, despite myself. Second is doing this in Javascript, which I otherwise really enjoy fiddling with to make UI improvements on web pages. A Java App or learning to build Flash programs would be my preference, even knowing the hassle of learning a new dev environment on the cheap or free. Edited August 24, 2013 by Rythe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2013 Saying that you can make a game like Dust: Elysian Tail is a massive claim, and I can't help but feel skeptical, especially as that game is 60% assets, 20% code, 20% polish, 80% vision, and 95% determination. i just mean programming it. And I'm saying this as someone who, along with a friend, made a one level schmup around late high school. Solo, I did a program that simulated a JRPG style turn-based battle system with a client-host 'multiplayer' setup to a late Beta state. I also tried to create an actual JRPG ATB battle system, but got mired in crash causing bugs until the project fell apart. im not sure if i understand this completely, but the codes i see everyday i love. i wont quit as long as if im told what to do. That, and even after reading up on new Javascript and HTML5 capabilities, I'm really skeptical of using it for any game that's supposed to last more than 15-30 minutes a full playthrough and/or not rely on a server database to manage data. memory on a computer shouldnt be an issue at all. it shouldnt be an issue on a 3ds either, as long as the code length is less then maybe 250,000 characters long. so I have to ask - Have you made a full game before, Hybrilynx? You have desire and enthusiasm, but not much to call 'vision', nor a plan to speak of besides coding something into a 3DS browser. You seem to be fishing around for a project lead and coordinator with little to entice someone who knows just how much you're asking of them, nevermind enough knowledge or experience of the process to have even odds of pulling it off. a full game, nope. but its only becuz i quit them when i start, becuz i cannot manage to pull off the art needed. i do have some mini games though, if you really wanta see them here. it should be obvious but yeah, they all are made and works maybe no slower then a frame every 50 microseconds in a 3ds browser. but only the shar blocking one should be impressive anyway. after all, the entire stage is the URL (or the default level). but i wouldnt call that impressive, i do have this other unfinished block game that is 1000x1000 for the 3ds. In short, you need to work on your pitch and probably get a volunteer for the art before this can go anywhere. if i had an artist, man i would probably start back with this paper mario-like paper zombie game i was making once. basically its like playing paper mario, except theres no mario anything for copyright reasons and there are zombies that chase you like cod black ops zombies. i guess that would count as a mini game though. My biggest hitch is whether or not I'm ready to dedicate myself to a real project again, despite myself. Second is doing this in Javascript, which I otherwise really enjoy fiddling with to make UI improvements on web pages. A Java App or learning to build Flash programs would be my preference, even knowing the hassle of learning a new dev environment on the cheap or free. merp :3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Direlda† 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2013 a full game, nope. but its only becuz i quit them when i start, becuz i cannot manage to pull off the art needed. i do have some mini games though, if you really wanta see them here. it should be obvious but yeah, they all are made and works maybe no slower then a frame every 50 microseconds in a 3ds browser. but only the shar blocking one should be impressive anyway. after all, the entire stage is the URL (or the default level). but i wouldnt call that impressive, i do have this other unfinished block game that is 1000x1000 for the 3ds. To quote Gilbert and Sullivan: "Tho' to us it's evident these attentions are well meant, such expressions don't appear calculated men to cheer..." (The Pirates of Penzance). As art appears to be the sticking place, might I reiterate my suggestion that you start with a text-based game. Dwarf Fortress's art is minimal, yet look at the complexity of the game. You don't need much in the way of graphics to make games. And if the graphics is what is keeping you from making games, then do away with them until you have more experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2013 Text based wouldn't be bad, would require ALOT more writing though. Perhaps getting someone to help with writing would be best. I do enjoy text based games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) To quote Gilbert and Sullivan: "Tho' to us it's evident these attentions are well meant, such expressions don't appear calculated men to cheer..." (The Pirates of Penzance). As art appears to be the sticking place, might I reiterate my suggestion that you start with a text-based game. Dwarf Fortress's art is minimal, yet look at the complexity of the game. You don't need much in the way of graphics to make games. And if the graphics is what is keeping you from making games, then do away with them until you have more experience. i just looked at some videos of it but im not sure what is complex about it. i mean, i never heard of this game before, and the 2 videos i skimmed through didnt look like there was anything serious on it, and it was my first time every seeing the game. so i could have missed some important stuff though. but if its maybe similar to minecraft then thats nothing as long as if its not in 3d. --- but stuff, we dont need to worry about me. if i fail to program something that i said i could, then talk about me at that time, and never trust me again. but for now, we should focus on a game. maybe something like defend your castle. but now that i think about it, i think i might make something like that for myself.. maybe everyone should go through all there 2d games and even browses some on the xbox live thing, and post what kind of games you like and should be made. hey, maybe something like alien hominid or castle crashers. except, no violence (somehow). Edited August 24, 2013 by Hybrilynx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Direlda† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 Text based wouldn't be bad, would require ALOT more writing though. Perhaps getting someone to help with writing would be best. I do enjoy text based games. Jude and I are both writers. And both of us seem to be willing to help, but hesitant in part because we've been involved in projects of this nature that didn't work and don't want to put our time and energy into something that goes nowhere if we can help it. I'm also hesitant because of the vagueness of the proposed game and the apparent lack of direction. There are two ways to get me on board with this project. The first is to come up with a concrete proposal for a game that details what the desired final game will include, who will be in charge, and a general timeline. The second is to make me the one in charge of what the game will be, but in so doing you will be getting a game that is partially furry as I would be using it as an opportunity to explore the backstory of the world my in-progress novels take place in. I would prefer if you went with option one, as that would mean less work for me. i just looked at some videos of it but im not sure what is complex about it. i mean, i never heard of this game before, and the 2 videos i skimmed through didnt look like there was anything serious on it, and it was my first time every seeing the game. so i could have missed some important stuff though. but if its maybe similar to minecraft then thats nothing as long as if its not in 3d. Watching videos of DF does not necessarily give you an idea of all that is going on. And while it has similarities to Minecraft, in that you are using what you gather from the environment to build with and have to deal with hostile creatures, DF is also like Sim City. Except that you will lose DF and yet have fun doing so. As an example of all that is going on, consider just one member of the party of dwarves you set out with, whom we shall call Urist McMiner. Urist McMiner has a starting inventory based off the profession you chose before embarking. Urist McMiner also has skills with varying levels of proficiency based upon how you allocated your starting allotment of points between characters. Urist McMiner has preferences and personality traits. As you play, the game tracks the quality of the clothes Urist McMiner is wearing, the level of cleanliness, how tired, how hungry, how thirsty, how happy, how sane, any wounds and where they are located, and how Urist McMiner feels about the quality of the dining room, to name a few. And that is just one dwarf. Every now and then you'll get migrants (some of whom might be Urist McUselessNoble) or be invaded by goblins or upset the elven traders so much that they declare war on you or dig into a cavern and have some monster from the deep slay everyone or start off in the arctic and have your dwarves freeze to death in the winter if they venture outside or have a vampire make its home in your fortress and cause a tantrum spiral as the dwarves discover the dead bodies of friends and family or try to pump water out of an aquifer so that you can get at the levels below it only to flood your fortress. And all this and more in a game that uses ASCII as its standard tileset (you can mod it to have a graphical tileset). Of course, it is still in development, so you have UI issues and the like. And it has a steep learning curve. In other words, you can make a decent game without worrying about graphics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 Jude and I are both writers. And both of us seem to be willing to help, but hesitant in part because we've been involved in projects of this nature that didn't work and don't want to put our time and energy into something that goes nowhere if we can help it. I'm also hesitant because of the vagueness of the proposed game and the apparent lack of direction. Vagueness is because I'm not certain of others involvement. I would love to write a back story and do an RPG style game, however, we've got me and Hybrilynx on board so far and that's it. In other words, a programmer and a writer. No graphics or sound people on board so far. Noone else. This is a project that could take some time, and like I've said I've seen this before. Enthusiasm to start then noone wants to follow through. I believe Hybrilynx will be involved to the end, I'll try to be. But without other help, then..... But I understand your concern. The vague general idea I have is four races: Lupes (wolf), Vulpes (Fox), Felips (Cat) (names are negotiable), and Humans are in a civil war. War's been raging for quite some time, no one remembers who fired the first shot. A member from each race would join the party in the end, and each have their own strengths, and weaknesses of course. Certain people would not be welcomed in certain towns. For example: Felips and Vulpes hate each other, but Lupes and Felips would get along. The entire idea is the player fights and works their way through the story to find out the war was started by a hidden fifth party. The player must defeat the fifth party before its too late. I'm thinking each race is building a super weapon, and the player must defeat the fifth party before the weapons completed and used. That's my entire actual idea, boiled down to a nutshell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Direlda† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 Thank you for that, Lu-Man! ^^ I now have a better idea of what I would be getting myself into if I volunteered. But I still have some questions... When is this game set? Medieval? Medieval Fantasy? Victorian Gothic? Victorian Steampunk? Modern? Post-apocalyptic? Future Sci-Fi? Who is going to be in charge of the project? There needs to be someone who will make sure people are on task, who delegates responsibilities, and who people can report to on their progress. How long do you estimate this will take OR when do you hope to be done by? Three years? Five years? Twenty one years? Will this project not happen if either a graphics or a sound person doesn't volunteer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 Who is going to be in charge of the project? There needs to be someone who will make sure people are on task, who delegates responsibilities, and who people can report to on their progress. that is exactly what i, do not want to ever do. How long do you estimate this will take OR when do you hope to be done by? Three years? Five years? Twenty one years? depends but i would say never (like minecraft. its never going to be finished). merp text you should draw something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 I should draw something? Well, lets see, once in school I was drawing something....teacher said "nice dinosaur". My reply was "Its supposed to be a car." That was in the 9th grade. Since then I figured drawing may not be my forte'. Seriously, I can't draw. Plot points is fine, I can come up with those. I don't have a set time frame or schedule on this thing b/c I don't know who else wants to be involved. To be honest Direlda, you're one of the few who seem to be actively interested in doing this. If you can establish those parameters and get a graphics and audio guy on board, I'm fine with you taking the reigns of leadership on this. I'm thinking closer to steam punk fantasy style as far as setting goes. Not necessarily maidens and dragons. Victorian style era dress, some close to modern style stuff maybe also some swords, spells, and such. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) P.S. I'm malleable on all of these plot points, so if someone prefers something in a different manner, just let me know and we can work something out. Edited August 26, 2013 by Lu-Man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 well sketching to get an idea. like to know if the game is side scrolling, top down view, how zoomed in/out it is, possibly the location of any health etc. thats what i mainly meant though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2013 Since we're doing an RPG style, lets do a top down classic FF or Zelda style view. Are you doing an Action/RPG style or traditional turn base? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 Since we're doing an RPG style, lets do a top down classic FF or Zelda style view. Are you doing an Action/RPG style or traditional turn base? im not sure if you were asking me, but if you were, im just the programmer. until someone says something that i dont think i can do, i will post saying it. so in other words, if yall want the game to be top down and side scrolling in different parts, or something like browser quest and turn based in different parts, sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Direlda† 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 depends but i would say never (like minecraft. its never going to be finished). Errm... Technically Minecraft is finished, as it has passed version 1.0.0, but the devs have decided to keep adding features and fixing bugs. At some point, though, they will stop. Technically the new Sim City is finished, as it was released, though considering its bugs, always online requirement, and lack of features such as subways, I probably won't buy it (besides, I have Sim City 2000). And the dev for Dwarf Fortress plans to be done in about 20 years, due to all the features he wants to implement. Even if you don't meet your deadline, it is important to have one, as not only do they make an enjoyable whooshing noise as they fly past, they also aid in staying on task and not abandoning the project. That's why I've told myself I should be ready to send query letters to publishers concerning my novel by the end of this year. So if this game is never going to be finished, then I'm not so sure that I want to work on it. Well, lets see, once in school I was drawing something....teacher said "nice dinosaur". My reply was "Its supposed to be a car." That was in the 9th grade. Since then I figured drawing may not be my forte'. Seriously, I can't draw. Plot points is fine, I can come up with those. I don't have a set time frame or schedule on this thing b/c I don't know who else wants to be involved. To be honest Direlda, you're one of the few who seem to be actively interested in doing this. If you can establish those parameters and get a graphics and audio guy on board, I'm fine with you taking the reigns of leadership on this. I'm thinking closer to steam punk fantasy style as far as setting goes. Not necessarily maidens and dragons. Victorian style era dress, some close to modern style stuff maybe also some swords, spells, and such. That reminds me of the opening to Le Petit Prince, in which the narrator explains that as a child he drew a boa constrictor digesting an elephant, but all the adults interpreted it as a hat. So because of that he gave up on art. I'm actively interested because when I was younger I entertained the notion of making video games--coding my own missions for Star Trek: Starship Creator messing around with Morrowind's editor, and making models with Maya. But at some point I realised that I was better suited to the narrative bits of a video game than the coding bits. Steampunk is good. ^^ Now if I am to get a graphics person and an audio person on board, lay out a time frame, make sure people are on task, coordinate efforts, and take up the reigns of leadership, then I would prefer to be working in the universe of my stories. Here are three possibilities for that: The Wars of the Magi that ultimately resulted in magical wastelands (this would be fantasy with dragons) The conflicts between the three elder races (one of which being anthropomorphic foxes), which precipitated the creation of other races and eventually the dying out of one of the three elder races (this would be fantasy without dragons or humans at first) Or we jump to a different world and explore the Wars of Hunger, which were fought between anthropomorphic beings over whether or not the prey species would continue to be used as food sources for the predator species and only truly ended when the Sionnach (a race/kingdom of anthropomorphic foxes) developed Dream World technology (this would be a fantasy-steampunk hybrid with no humans). So if one of those sounds good, then I'll work on elaborating (these are all points of history that I would love to elaborate on as part of my world building) and leading. If not, then please find someone else to lead, as the bulk of my efforts should go to my stories in one way or another and I'm already helping make the languages for one indie game. As far as graphics people go, I'm not sure if I know anyone who does sprites, but I do know a few people who might be willing to do concept art. As far as sound people go, I could try to bother Kail or one of my musical friends or I could ask Fox Amoore, as he is going to be attending Rainfurrest this year as the musical guest of honor. I also have programming friends whom I could approach. But if I'm going to ask anyone, a better game pitch is needed. im not sure if you were asking me, but if you were, im just the programmer. until someone says something that i dont think i can do, i will post saying it. so in other words, if yall want the game to be top down and side scrolling in different parts, or something like browser quest and turn based in different parts, sure. I would keep it as simple as possible and not have some parts be top down and others side scrolling. There's going to be enough coding for you to do as it is. As for action vs. turn based, that depends on if you want to fight the enemies on the level maps (like Zelda) or transport everyone to a battlefield (like FF Tactics or Pokemon). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 My question was a two part question, both of ability, and preference on Action/RPG v.s. Turn based. Direlda: Like I think I've said before, I'm not tied to any one particular plot point. In fact, everything I've written so far you could say was "spit balling". I'm just throwing around ideas right now and seeing what sticks. If you've already got plots and other things written out, great - its less work for all of us. I don't have much coding experience and have decided a long time ago that coding is not really my shtick, but plot I wouldn't mind assisting in. number 2 or 3 sounds interesting, really. Like I said though, I only ask to be able to assist in some of the plot points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rythe† 0 Report post Posted August 28, 2013 You don't need a lot of graphics work if you can make a consistent aesthetic that works with clever simplification of asset use. The flash game Fear Less! is an excellent example. There's really not a lot of art or animation in the game, but what's there is excellent and it's wonderful for it. Dwarf Fortress, as mentioned, is a decent example too. Sounds and, I think, music can be had from creative commons sites specifically for freeware type games as long as you credit the sources. Thinking about it, you might even be able to pick up art assets from similar sites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 28, 2013 you're right, there probably is open liscenced art and music out there. Sometimes that comes with strings attached though. It would be something worth looking into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Direlda† 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2013 I'm currently working on providing a better "explanation" of the two choices you thought were interesting, Lu-man. Hopefully I'll be done in a few days. And yes, there are free graphics and sounds/music out there. But depending on what we decide to do, they may or may not be appropriate. For now they should stay on the table as options. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu-Man† 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2013 Rythe: Can you get us more information on open licensed graphics and music in the next couple days and tell us if its worth it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hybrilynx† 0 Report post Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) so how is anything going anyone? until i can get something valid, i cant make even a preview. for programming im still in 24/7 though. nobody has to worry about me unless i dont login at all. but anyway, i got bit trip saga and i kind of like it. and kind of dont (even if it was $5 (eshop until i think the 15th this month)). but hey, if someone wants something as small as that, we can make a music game like it. i have no problems with making squares. but the music is something i cannot do for now. Edited September 4, 2013 by Hybrilynx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Direlda† 0 Report post Posted September 5, 2013 Well, I just finished moving, so not as much got written over the last several days as I was hoping. But I'm getting close. It doesn't help that the form one of the "explanations" is taking is largely an alliterative poem. Luckily I have Rogert's thesaurus and the compact OED to help me out. And don't worry, once the rough drafts of these "explanations" are done, I'll post them up--no sense making you wait through the revision process (it would take a lot longer). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites