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Foxbunny help me. (input of othfurs welcome)


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#21 foxbunny

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 09:50 PM

At this point I think you just need tools to help you say what you want to say and explore your own work. You have demonstrated that you are willing to make changes to improve your piece and are capable of modifying your work. From this point it's all just doing your REPs (Revise, Edit, Proofread) and trying out techniques. This is actually how I work with other writers (peers) in workshop.



#22 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:02 AM

I definitely see that, however I don't like to over edit anything, I don't want to draw an apple and add so much or take away, to the point that it looks like an orange.

I will be making changes but I consider this to be almost complete. I want to smooth it out for fluidity sake, and I want the final movement to pop. The last section should seal the main theme within the mind of the reader, or reveal a bigger picture.

I will post actions I edit as I go from here to St least see if my changes add or take away, because I have figured out, that you can't see your own picture, when you are standing so close for so long. I hyper analyze and I will be needing to see through the eyes of others to get a clear image.

How do you like the cut up versus the simpler examples previous

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#23 foxbunny

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 02:12 AM

I like some aspects of both. I think the cut up is a little more interesting, but the regular version is clearer.



#24 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 02:16 AM

I definitely want clarity, I'm incoherent enough on my own

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#25 Direlda

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:39 PM

i was suggesting that you do something along these lines but with your own words:

 

these                         vulpine

words                        with love of aburaage

form                          in soups and salads

a sentence               of double proportions

 

it takes a bit of doing, but i know that you can do it--

i don't capitalise right now

not capitalising is cool

do be do be dool


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#26 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 06:51 PM

I was trying to do that but more complicated. I was hoping to make all three columns readable across and down.
However what you showed me is similar to what I was trying kind of but made me think why not make left and right lists,
And then make center fluid, as well as reading across? I'll try soon, but I work tonight. I hope you both follow or check back as this is a lot of fun. :3 *hugs new language mentors, squeezing too tightly*

EDIT* actually direlda what I said IS exactly what you demonstrated. *Thomas facepaws*

Edited by Thomas Maltuin, 18 December 2014 - 06:55 PM.

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#27 Direlda

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:07 AM

Well, some of your versions work better than others. The version of the 15th doesn't work so well because it lacks punctuation in that section and could use a few more words to clarify. The version of the 16th works better, though "history" causes trouble for the left side, "manifest" sort of causes trouble for the right side, and while I like "with   in" it is hard to read it as a single preposition when reading across. For yesterday, the version where you have "{LIVE}" doesn't work as well because "live" needs to agree with a singular noun "Identity" and a plural noun "histories." And the other version of yesterday doesn't imply to read in down in columns in addition to standardly.

 

Adding "all" in to the left side either before "have shaped" if you like the way the version of the 16th works or between "have" and "shaped" if you like how the version of the 17th sounds would probably make things work a bit better.

 

I'm going back and forth on whether or not "manifest" should change to "manifesting."

 

For the version of the 17th you're going to have to choose whether to keep "histories" or "Identity" the same and then change the other to singular or plural, respectively.

 

As a side note, dashes tend to be a bit longer when used they way you are using it after "footsteps," so it should read: footsteps-- to convey the right sort of dash (sadly I don't know if it is possible on the forums to get the unbroken dash of that length to show up in posts).

 

All-in-all you are doing a good job with the revision process! With poetry reading it out loud can help. And with this sort of interwoven sentences it often is good to write each out separately to make sure they make sense (and, if you're daring, you can try a palindromic poem next--it reads the same forwards and backwards not counting punctuation and revolves around a single word in the middle of the poem).


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#28 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 04:43 AM

I agree with you fully, I occasionally do read aloud, and I have argued with myself on plurality and arrangement a lot. At this point I'm considering stripping the whole section between perhaps and protagonist. I like the plurality of histories with the singular protagonist. because depending on which column or section you read, it has a different quality about it. Instead of histories have shaped, the protagonists, it is more like the thought "histories have shaped the idea of a protagonist" it's more a concept of character in this situation, rather than a literal. It's like all protagonists are unified together into one entity.

I have tried, manifest, manifests, manifesting and manifestation. Something big needs to change.

I think the last was a cut up that I smoothed out. I need to break out the online thesaurus for this project.

Edited by Thomas Maltuin, 19 December 2014 - 04:44 AM.

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#29 foxbunny

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 02:08 PM

I wonder if you might move forward a bit more if you added more concrete.

Change the general to the specific.

Protagonist, for example, can become Odysseus or Hamlet or Katniss (please, not Katniss).

 

The reason for concrete words rather than using a more nebulous word is because a concrete word has more meaning conveyed. Direlda mentioned in another thread that "tree" conveys a different picture to everyone. "Sequoia" would be more specific and "Hyperion" would be even more specific, maybe too specific.


Edited by foxbunny, 19 December 2014 - 02:09 PM.


#30 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 03:23 PM

Yes but in that instance I think we might lose the meaning of the center column implying that you or me are the protagonists of our own story.

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#31 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 06:04 PM

perhaps

 

 

             joy          within            the stories,

hardship, and     experience,     manifest        

    history, and all         live            in footprints,       

       

      silhouettes dreamed,   the Identities,   in the wake,                       

 

of

 

The Protagonist

 

 

 

I think it finally works, for analysis sake, here are the independent lines.

 

LEFT: perhaps joy hardship and history and all silhouettes dreamed of The Protagonist

 

CENTER: perhaps within experience live the identities of The Protagonist

 

RIGHT: perhaps the stories manifest in footprints in the wake of The Protagonist

 

SUMMATION: perhaps joy within the stories hardship and experience manifest history and all live in footprints, silhouettes dreamed, the identities, in the wake, of The Protagonist.

 

I'm considering removing all but the last line's worth of punctuation.

I hope this is at least an improvement.

 

I am very tempted to name this work "Protagony" in the end :P


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Forever,
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#32 Thomas Maltuin

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 06:09 PM

I wonder if you might move forward a bit more if you added more concrete.

Change the general to the specific.

Protagonist, for example, can become Odysseus or Hamlet or Katniss (please, not Katniss).

 

The reason for concrete words rather than using a more nebulous word is because a concrete word has more meaning conveyed. Direlda mentioned in another thread that "tree" conveys a different picture to everyone. "Sequoia" would be more specific and "Hyperion" would be even more specific, maybe too specific.

 

If i do change it, I would like to find the most ambiguous of quotable protagonists, almost to the point of obscurity, or some name that nearly any reader could step into without thinking about it. I don't want to give it away, however i do want the reader to have the option of seeing how they are the protagonist of their own tale.


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by: Tomo

 

Don't Give Up!
Keep moving forward,
 
Forever,
Endeavor.





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